oh yeah sure.. we all know you mean the car.. it looks like ass..Originally Posted by Vector
haha just kidding man.. im ready for this thing to be done!
oh yeah sure.. we all know you mean the car.. it looks like ass..
haha just kidding man.. im ready for this thing to be done!
one day I'll return.
first invisible car ftw!
i've tried it.. i pulled on the cable to wot and the engine can rev quicker than the server can pull the cable. yea i will change it after if i dont like it, i dont mind the little bit of lag... will feel more consistant..I don't think that the rate that the servo opens the throttle would be any different in performance compared to you just punching it to the floor with a cable.When you give full throttle really fast, the engine doesn't exactly shoot straight up in RPM's, with a servo motor it opens the throttle at a constant rate, there for you actually would reduce the lag in a way. You can get a high speed high torque servo motor.
on a side note..
i order another gauge today
Autometer WBo2
Last edited by Vector; 10-01-2008 at 02:32 PM.
You really seem to like electronics. That's cool, but the only way I'd set up a drive by wire system is if the ecu controlled the tranny also. Otherwise, there is no benefit to drive by wire. You can use an aftermarket throttle cable more cost effectively, and with superior function over the non necessitated servo setup.
And lag isn't "consistent", it's just annoying. Not to mention, does the servo lag on Closing the throttle? That could be dangerous, not merely annoying.
Sorry to be negative..
^^^ I would hope that it is indexed in some sort of way to return to home position rather quickley?
cost effective drive by wire? well its not really that kind of system... its just an electronic throttle setup...drive by wire systems are still 1000+ dollars... and even then are not available here to open public just for me to install. they are mainly ONLY available to people with medical disabilities, or will have to have alot of money outside to get one of these systems made for a vehicle. so no.. they are not cheap.
the benefit to this setup is that i dont have to travel through 10ft of mechanical cable that could jam, kink, or sease at any given time. as i was experiencing on my initial test drive. as far as i can see... that is much more dangerous than what i have now.. ecu aint gonna fuel cut when the cable is jammed because it "just knows" it is.
for those who didnt read my previous posts on the electronic system thats being developed for my car. the system also has control over the engines ignition system. outside of that, a main killswitch beside my seat(last resort). if in the event there is a problem with the throttle system the microcontroller cuts power to the ecu/injectors/fuel pump..
if for any reason i feel theres a problem with the system, or doesnt act properly.. i will not continue to drive the vehicle untill the problem is resolved. I am mearly doing this way as it simplifies some of the vehicles systems. the system is not stand alone.
it works with the ecu in monitoring rpms, vss, pedal sensor(tps1) and engine tps(tps2). it needs to monitor these values in order to determine if there is a fault in the system or not. if there is a fault engine is shutdown, end of story... it is not a easy system to design, its already on its 3rd revision before it was even tested in the car.
i hope this clears up any issues you guys have with it.
When I said "drive by wire" I meant an electronic throttle setup. I didn't discern between the ecu controlling the throttle and tranny based on the most efficient way of achieving the desired rate of acceleration vs your foot electronically controlling the throttle directly. End result is the same as far as there is no mechanical connection, that's all I meant.
I have no idea what you mean, talking about people with disabilities, you mean like completely electronic, like a modern airplane? lol.
Either way, it's not like me second guessing this idea is going to change anything here, if you're happy with it, you are, if you're not, you're not.
You know something that you could do that might be kind of cool actually, after all of 2 seconds of thought into it, reference the foot pedal position to a desired manifold press point, instead of a set throttle opening position. See why I would say that? More linear torque across the powerband vs foot position.
Another way of better part throttle boost control, too, if you ever wanted to go forced induction, which of course, you should.
interesting A.Theory
the disability thing is for hand controls, eye movement and such for those that need it. And true those have a steep mark up since medicare is a customer.
Ford uses a processor originally called a black oak power pc. They also use three "tps"(actually called apps) at the pedal, each works reverse polarity from each other and will override spikes of the other.
anyway, Vector you rocking mad man.
i didnt mean to sound like a prick and i apologize for the last post, just many people coming at me like its a sin for doing it(outside of this forum )... assuming that i have no fail safe, no saftey measures in place, that i'm just going from a pot to servo through a pulse controller... no i'm not that stupid. thats just down right dangerous. i have taken every measure into affect, as a matter of fact the system will probably be going on its 4th revision(pcb re-design this time).
there arent that many places around here that sell equipment like this, what am i supposed to do?
should i just goto honda as an example and say i want a throttle servo from an 07 honda fit? (probably not a bad idea, but i already feel vioalted thinking of how much that units gonna cost.)
the servo is as sensitive as my foot for small adjustments.
as far as forced induction goes, i'm not installing WBo2 and fpg/fpr for coolness.. i'm putting a small t25 on this thing as soon as i get it fully insured.
the f22b2 by itself... just wont cut it for me ha.
Last edited by Vector; 10-02-2008 at 08:18 PM.
bought materials and started to setup the engine cover housing, i will get some pics tomorrow of most of it setup... unfortunately i don't have sheeting large enough for the actual cover itself, so that part will have to wait till later in the week when i can get around to a metal scrap yard.
the width of the cover(s) will be around 42" and will be constructed mostly from aluminum. that shit ain't cheap 3 x 8ft L channel(1"x1" i think) and 3 x 8ft(2") flat costed me around 140 bucks... damn... the cover itself will be coming from a recycler, so i'm hoping that's gonna be cheaper haha
i still have a fair amount of welding to do on the car, unfortunately alot of the finishing welding has to be put off until the firewall is in. i want to see how i want to run fuel/electrical, so i don't obstruct/hide any paths i may want to use to route to some of these components to keep them out of site and safe.
that's all i got for now, other than that, its getting fucking cold out, so i better get my ass in gear and get this finished.
by the time i got out of the house... it was raining on sunday, so i didnt do anything... but heres what i got done the little time i had on saturday.
there will be another angle in the front that clears alternator and rad hoses... also it will sit alittle higher to clear the dipstick and other things sticking out... its leaning forward right now... just wanted to show some quick pics on how i'm constructing the engine cover brackets supports. and yes i will be closing off the sides... .
and before anyone comments on how there are 3 small holes in the passenger side fender, there are, and i will be fixing them. those appeared when i was cleaning up the welds with the grinder... i will fix them once i get this firewall stuff sorted out.
Last edited by Vector; 10-14-2008 at 01:12 PM.
have you considered going N/A on the motor at all? bisimoto makes some pretty sick shit for the F22....just a thought
Oh yea...this build is badass
sure, if i had the money... but that kind of build will run a pretty high cost... with that same amount of money into a forced induction set up, it will still win over N/A. i have to go with what i can afford right now... eventually down the road once the car is finished eating my money for the time being, i can save and research more into a better built engine for this car.
look utterly awesome cant wait to see the housing and firewall up, just a funny thing i saw a 98 2 dr accord all riced out with custom nsx door mouldings with the big intake vents behind the doors, not functional for that but would work for intake on a mid engine, looks awesome, again money issues money issues hah
i've contemplated doing functional side vents into the engine compartment, but that would take away from some space i could use to house electronics or other equipment... the idea is not totally out of the question...
i'm installing 2x rad fans or similar inside the rear top half on both sides of the engine compartment to vent out hot air downwards behind the motor and transmission. they will be variably controlled by one of the pics in the car that also control ignition and the rest of the cooling system (rad fans on the rad upfront). basically they will be running half duty once the engine compartment reaches 50c once it passes 60c, they will throttle up to keep the temp around 60c or less.
so far i'm up to 3 40pin pic micro controllers...
1 = display/keypad pic, dash controls (heater, auto lights and wipers)
2 = central host pic, does most of the processing and monitors sensors for the lights/wipers, fuel level, rpms, vss. this pic will also be able to work with my 2 way viper alarm as part of the keyless operation. this pic also has a usb port that i can connect with a computer for diagnostics / testing.
3 = ignition pic, controls acc/run/start states. controls throttle and vehicles cooling system.
the pics talk to each other using i2c 2 wire bus.
Kick ass. Its a Honda version of the 86[is it a monster?]
just a thought on the drive by wire, what about a mechanical linkage? you could have a very short cable attached to a rod more or less, and another short cable going from the rod to the throttle. that way when you step on the gas, the first cable pulls on the rod, which in turn pulls on the throttle cable. the rod wont bind like a cable, and would offer you immediate throttle response.
Bump, any updates? This has been an epic build so far, I love this thread.
lil off topik but whats with these long bolts, is that to lower the car???
if i remeber correctly they are used so you can put a strut bar on a carbed car without a civic box mod
lil off topik but whats with these long bolts
but i could be wrong lol
89 accord in need of help custom body, every thing else besides interior is shot. names KEVO HIt me UP 503-409-6074 need advice and the know how to get shit done.
i belive these were for the top hat mod.. infat i belive vector was the one that invented it and tested it on his car first. (for those that dont know what that is search it up)
and i agree with others , weres the update's? i expected to see some rwd dounuts by now
hey guys, sorry i've been afk for the last while. my work office moved across town, so i had to deal with that, then when i was finished with that my uncle ended up in the hospital with a brain aneurysm that exploded.... so i had to goto Calgary foothills medical center and catch up with him just in case the worst happened which it didn't. turns out that the whole thing blew out but didn't do any damage other than some massive head pain and temporary paralyzed accompanied by a seizure.
they couldn't located the opening with the 20 something mri's and ct's they gave him due to it some how healing itself ... so they put him in some tube and sent some major vibrations into his head to see if they could get it to leak a little to detect where it was so they could go in a pinch it shut. but there was no such luck, so they watched him closely each day till the excess fluid in his head was cleaned out by his body. he was released Saturday and all is well according to the docs in foothills. has to come back for a check up in 6-8 weeks.
anyways about the car. I've done only a little work on it since. i managed to get it back in the garage so i should be able to give it more attention without the weathers consent. as far as the electronic throttle goes, i found something else that will work much better as an actuator. i will fill you guys in later on this if it works for me. its difficult to do "cable -> rod -> cable" in this situation as i only have the tunnel to work with, and its not no where near straight and there are other things in the way like fuel and coolant, electrical lines.
unfortunately the guy who does all the pic programming for me is not avail for the next couple weeks. so i may have to revert back to a cable style throttle if the car is road ready before he can do anything else for me. i was thinking i'd head over to pnp and see what they have for mr2's or those pontiac fiero's to see how they work.
Last edited by Vector; 11-11-2008 at 10:50 PM.
Man sorry to hear about your uncle, glad he's ok though that's great.
You know, if you have to go back to a cable setup, you should get a throttle cable from an NSX!!! Then you can have NSX parts on your car! ...or are they drive by wire?
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