Project, 4g Distributor / Ecu ( Obd-1 )

[guaynabo89]

so... has anybody actually finished the OBD1 conversion as of now?(looks over at swap_file)

Ive been obd1 for a yaer now and I think justin86 is running obd1 as well , and of course justanothermikes brother, cousin etc from way back.

[A20A1]

Hey guys, just had a thought of a possible solution. What if you had a cnc machined "spacer" made that would wedge inbetween the dizzy and the engine. It would have the holes for the normal a20's dizzy mounting so that you could screw bolts into the block like normal. Then it could have three bolts welded into a recessed area of the "spacer" that the f22 dizzy would slide onto and then you would use 3 nuts to tighten it down.

like this?

[88Accord-DX]

Hope it gots a CNC spacer for the cam to distributor rotor.

[newaccorddriver]

Ive been obd1 for a yaer now and I think justin86 is running obd1 as well , and of course justanothermikes brother, cousin etc from way back.

which distributor did you use and how extensive was the mod to make it fit?

[bobafett]

i think they are all using 4g accord dizzys.... the external coil dizzy from 92-93 accord is going to be easier to wire in because our cars came with external coil. also these dizzys supposedly hold up better than the 90-91 dizzy which was prone to failure (spark scatter?)

[Robs89LXi]

like this?

Actually, I was more thinking of placing the mounting bracket behind our cylinder head mounting holes. Since the bottom hole already lines up, just fashion an arch shaped piece that would bolt to the back of our top "ears". Then you could put long bolts through it to stick out in the spaces between our ears and line up with the other two ears of the dizzy. This would eliminate the need to lengthen the shaft of the dizzy.

[A20A1]

i think they are all using 4g accord dizzys.... the external coil dizzy from 92-93 accord is going to be easier to wire in because our cars came with external coil. also these dizzys supposedly hold up better than the 90-91 dizzy which was prone to failure (spark scatter?)

MSD converts the internal coil to exteranl for the ones that need it. It's just a cap and rotor combo... thing is replacement parts could be a tad more pricey.

Actually, I was more thinking of placing the mounting bracket behind our cylinder head mounting holes. Since the bottom hole already lines up, just fashion an arch shaped piece that would bolt to the back of our top "ears". Then you could put long bolts through it to stick out in the spaces between our ears and line up with the other two ears of the dizzy. This would eliminate the need to lengthen the shaft of the dizzy.

K, I see 1/4 and 1/2 circle slotted metal bits from time to time on various machine parts and possibly in hardware stores near the track lighting sections where you have all those mounting dilly dallies. Anyways those would fit back there.

[guaynabo89]

which distributor did you use and how extensive was the mod to make it fit?

Like bobafet said its a 92-93 accord external coil dis.

Had to modify the cam key, weld the legs where I needed them to be and adding three extra wires, the crank sensor wires (2) and the icm wire (1)

[newaccorddriver]

Like bobafet said its a 92-93 accord external coil dis.
Had to modify the cam key, weld the legs where I needed them to be and adding three extra wires, the crank sensor wires (2) and the icm wire (1)

what do you mean by modify the cam key?

you can probably make alot of money here by premaking those disitributors for us here , just a thought

[w00tw00t111]

like this?

Actually yes, that's exactly what I meant a20 thanks for the much prettier 3d model. I totally didn't even think about the cam key not fitting.*that's the part that the dizzy connects to inside the head correct? I'm trying to think of a way to get that "extended" w/o having to weld a rod inbetween the two pieces seeing as though I can just imagine if there were poor welds that it would just scatter into pieces. I can get the anything cnc'd no problem I just need to know what I should do about "extending" one of the two parts.

Edit:What could the max width of the spacer be w/o affecting the cam key?

P.S. Thanks so much a20 for the pic. I'm sure it helped alot more people to visualize what I was talking about then that ascii piece of crap I did :p

[guaynabo89]

what do you mean by modify the cam key?
you can probably make alot of money here by premaking those disitributors for us here , just a thought

The cam key is the two pronged piece at the end of the distributor that fits into the end of the cam. This piece only fits on the distributor one way. ITs held on with small rod that goes through the middle of it with a snap ring on the outside to hold the small rod inside. You have to drill a new hole through the cam key to give this small rod a different position to through and reposition the key in a different angle to get the distributor to face in a more normal direction.


I know it sounds like blabber but pictures will explin better. You be drilling new holes where about the red lins are to be able to rotate the cam key in either direction to get the timing correct when you reweld the legs.

[newaccorddriver]

The cam key is the two pronged piece at the end of the distributor that fits into the end of the cam. This piece only fits on the distributor one way. ITs held on with small rod that goes through the middle of it with a snap ring on the outside to hold the small rod inside. You have to drill a new hole through the cam key to give this small rod a different position to through and reposition the key in a different angle to get the distributor to face in a more normal direction.
I know it sounds like blabber but pictures will explin better. You be drilling new holes where about the red lins are to be able to rotate the cam key in either direction to get the timing correct when you reweld the legs.

suddenly megasquirt and fords EDIS seems alot easier then this... too bad i dont have welding skills and a spare head to try on...

[newaccorddriver]

hahaha

but megasquirt won't be able to control your timing!

This is seriously easier then it sounds and looks if you break it down.

I aint scurrrrrred!

im pretty sure megasquirt n spark can control timing as well.

i sure its easier if i do break it down, the way guaynabo89 explained it made it sound somewhat easier. but the fact remains that hes got the welding skills that im currently lacking to do this sorta task. im not really scared to do the conversion, but its the fact that i might end up in a dead end with downtime that scares me. if i had an extra head id do it though(or atleast attempt it)

[bobafett]

megasquirt II can use many different spark control systems, all of which are better than our lame setup. the easiest to work with is probably the GM DIS or the Ford EDIS systems.

http://www.megasquirt.info/
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/Ignition.htm

[A20A1]

You have to drill a new hole through the cam key to give this small rod a different position to through and reposition the key in a different angle to get the distributor to face in a more normal direction.

But if we wanted we can install it in an abnormal facing postion without the need to mess with the key, right?




Was that TDC alligned... or is that just the best fit? why did you cut off all 3 legs if you only needed to remove one?

[guaynabo89]

But if we wanted we can install it in an abnormal facing postion without the need to mess with the key, right?




Was that TDC alligned... or is that just the best fit? why did you cut off all 3 legs if you only needed to remove one?

If you dont redrill the key You'll have to bend the water ppe coming out of the cylinder head out of the way.

I felt better doing it this way.


As for the legs I wanted it to be as reliable as stock without being jerryrigged. Plus look good

[gfrg88]

man im so lost on this swap......

[Swap_File]

I am not sure if the spacer idea would work. Unless the spacer is really really deep, you still end up with whatever part is facing the thermostat housing being in the way.

I think I found a simpler solution:


I ground down the angled support area around each leg, and once again made that hole in the side so the thermostat housing bolt doesn't hit. I then made slots on the top two legs, but there was no room for a slot on the lower leg so I just made a bolt hole. Eventually I need to JB weld or caulk the thermostat housing hole, but that can be done later.

If I just use the top two bolts I can rotate the distributor a few degrees, otherwise if I use all three bolts the distributor cannot be rotated. As long as I get the key drilled properly, it should be OK. Luckily I got a few keys at the junkyard, so I can try it a few times. If I can't get the key perfect, I can hopefully just compensate for it in the ECU's timing map.

Edit: The only tools I used to do this was a drill press, grinder, hack saw, and files.

Edit2: I checked, and it also all fits with the distributor cap on.

[Swap_File]

But if we wanted we can install it in an abnormal facing postion without the need to mess with the key, right?

Was that TDC alligned... or is that just the best fit? why did you cut off all 3 legs if you only needed to remove one?

I took that picture just to show how far it stuck into the thermostat housing. I did not have it at TDC.

My first plan was to remove all the legs, shorten them up, and weld them back on. That way I could have all three legs holding the distributor on, and be able to fully adjust the mounting of it. As long as I got it mounted at the right angle, I would not have to mess with the key. Then I found out that I would have to grind down part of the thermostat housing, as shown here. I did not want to do that.

While working on that I noticed that there was space inside the distributor to make a hole for the thermostat housing. I made hole, and it just happened that when the hole was in place over the thermostat housing all the legs line up somewhat (but I had already cut them off at this point ). I got another distributor, and cut it up again, this time leaving the legs on, and I was able to mount it as shown above.

I still need to figure out where exactly TDC is, and drill the key (as shown here)

Edit: It looks like my distributor will end up being mounted at an angle very similar to guaynabo89's.

[Swap_File]

I filled up the notch I made with JB weld. It worked really good. I put down some duct tape, then screwed the sensor in. Then flipped it over and filled the hole with JB weld from the other side. It ran into the cracks, and smoothed out nicely.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

damit, now i gotta go back and read 12 pages. this is my nest thing to do, glad you guys are takinbg the time and doing the research

[Swap_File]

Here's a quick summary:

1. No OBD1 distributor fits nicely on the A20. Everyone so far has used F22 distributors, and cut them up to fit. There are several ways of doing it. Pictures of how I did it are directly above.

2. Because the distributor is not mounted at its normal angle, TDC (top dead center) is not correct. To fix this, the key will have to be drilled at another angle, like this.

3. A OBD0 -> OBD1 adapter is needed to plug the new ECU in. Some extra wires may need to be ran for the new distributor. EGR and probably some black box wires could possibly be used for this too, since they will not be used otherwise. I am building my own adapter from an old OBD0 ECU and part of an OBD1 harness.

4. A P75 fuel map is apparently a good starting point. So either get a P75 ECU, or chip your ECU and run a P75 map to start with. Any OBD1 Civic or Integra ECU should work fine, the fuel and timing maps can be transferred over.

5. Controlling the stock intake’s secondary butterflies and the EGR are extra work. Probably just cap the EGR, and hook the secondary butterflies up to an RPM window switch like shown here. Or maybe look at a B18 or other alternative intake that has no EGR or secondary butterflies.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

thanks, rthat simplified 12 pages. i rember seeing egr block off plates somewhere, how much do they usually go for?

[gfrg88]

where can i get an egr block off plate, i need one quick???

[Swap_File]

I would just trace the EGR and cut one out of some steel.