Project, 4g Distributor / Ecu ( Obd-1 )

**bobafett** · 09-26-2005, 10:53 AM

rob, i am thinking that is what the machine shop is going to do for me as well. my dizzy should be shipping out soon, and i will keep you guys posted to the solution that we come up with for it.

if anyone has an "extra" efi distributor bearing, or whatever that peice is called, i could really use it, and it would ensure that whatever adapter i use could be applicable to either efi or carbed heads.

but rob i am on the same page as you, i was thinking that whatever we use as an adapter will be way too thick, and then it will keep the dizzy to far away. as well as reindexing it .

**Robs89LXi** · 09-26-2005, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by bobafett

but rob i am on the same page as you, i was thinking that whatever we use as an adapter will be way too thick, and then it will keep the dizzy to far away. as well as reindexing it .

Yeah, but like I said, just grind/cut the mounting points down a bit, and it should be plenty good. As long as it is not too thick a material, you should leave plenty enough thread for the bolts/stud.

Didn't someone on here already do the reindexing? How about sharing some more info on that? Thanks.

***A20A1*** · 09-26-2005, 03:59 PM

I dunno you guys, form the looks of it what Openloop did (On the first page) was remove the EFI mounting stud by the thermostat housing and put a bolt in it's place then made a metal flat bar that went from the bolt to the upper mounting slot on the 4G distributor.

I'm just a dumd dumb...

Well I got the pis of the two thermostat housings, I thought they had different lengths and sizes.

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**Swap_File** · 09-27-2005, 09:19 PM

I was making a junkyard hunting list for this project. This is what I found.

As stated in the first post, the F22 distributor can be grabbed off of the 4th generation accord, as well as any of the other F22 series engines listed here (I will also probably grab the alternator and maybe climate control for the 4G swap ). The 90-91 Accord has an internal coil, 92-93 has an external coil. The internal can be made external with a new cap. External is better, because the internal can overheat and stop working.

For the ECU, according to the data here, only the 94-95 Integra will work. Anything newer than that will be OBD2, which is not useable for us. I also plan on grabbing the 4 wire O2 sensor, and cutting off the OBD-1 plugs so I can build a harness with an extra A20 ECU I have sitting around.

P72 94-95 OBD1 Integra GSR
P74/75 94-95 OBD1 Integra RS/LS/GS
(Apparently they can all be programmed with each others BINs, and tuned and tweaked as needed)

These OBD-1 ECUs work with most software and data logging programs I found. They can also control IAB which the A20 stock intake needs.

I was very impressed with the software that is available. This should work as good (or probably better) as my previous plan of building a MegaSquirt ECU, and it will be cheaper and easier.

**bobafett** · 09-27-2005, 09:51 PM

yeah thats a good summary of our option.... hes pretty much right... now its just a matter of a few more members throwing this together and documenting problems etc...

***A20A1*** · 09-27-2005, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by bobafett

yeah thats a good summary of our option.... hes pretty much right... now its just a matter of a few more members throwing this together and documenting problems etc...

Yup, I'm hoping this wil get worked out... Tossing the vacuum and mechanical advance for electronic advance controls cuts out a little more strain in doing a Carb Turbo setup. Ever since getting confimation that ECU and Distributor could still be used with carbs. https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=46643 I've been very hopeful that well see a carb turbo setup running on a 3G.

I have seen the lude with A-series carb turbo... but it seems like we could streamline it more.

**bobafett** · 09-28-2005, 05:55 AM

definetly... well i don't think there is too much i can do to help, since carbs make no damn sense to me, and my brain tells me it "should" be scary to turbo a carbed car, but i know its done all the time, i just dont understand how the motor would last without all the precise control that you get with tuning your EFI system.

also what is the benifit of turboing a carbed setup, vs switching to EFI and turboing your car? just curious since i seriously dont know much about carbs...

***A20A1*** · 09-28-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by bobafett

also what is the benifit of turboing a carbed setup, vs switching to EFI and turboing your car? just curious since i seriously dont know much about carbs...

**bobafett** · 09-28-2005, 09:42 AM

wow thats awesome! ;-)

**Swap_File** · 09-30-2005, 04:32 PM

I did some more investigation on OBD1 Honda ECUs, as I had never worked with them before. This is what I found:

If someone does not want to solder inside their ECU, a P75 or P72 ECU would be the only solution (like I said above). I believe both have IAB control, but some posts on pgmfi said the P75 did not.

If someone does have the ability (or knows someone who does) to solder, almost any "92-95 "OBD1" Civics and Integras" ECU from this list should work. This is because all of these ECUs can run each others code. The only difference is in what hardware they natively support. You can add IAB by soldering on some parts, as described here. You would also need to get an EPROM Programmer to make a chip that supports IAB, and that uses the correct maps (a P72/P75 map would probably be a good starting point).

These ECUs also support modifications for full throttle shifting, launch control, and boost cut.

Getting a board with a knock sensor (or adding a stock Honda knock board) really isn't helpful because they are made to detect knocks in aluminum blocks, not cast iron.

The OBD1 Prelude and Accord ECUs listed on that page use different code, and will not yet work with most of the software that is available. There is work being done on the Prelude P13 board, which does natively support EGR, knock, IAB, etc, but it might be a while.

**Robs89LXi** · 09-30-2005, 06:07 PM

Problem is, our IAB is vacuum controlled. I guess some options would be to remove the butterfly, use a B-series intake (if it would fit), or maybe invert the funtion of the diaphram controller to open with positive pressure instead. Anyone know what RPM our secondaries open at? If it happens to coincide with when your turbo starts spooling, that would be nice

. I'm not sure if software such as Uberdata, Chrome etc. allow for you to disable the IAB function or not, but I bet they do.

**Swap_File** · 09-30-2005, 07:26 PM

Oh, I never thought about how IAB was vacuum controled.

And yes, the software does basically allow enabling and disabling of IAB by what BIN you run (as well as enable/disable of VTEC or just about anything else). That way the ECU won't throw a code when put in a different vehicle like our 3rd generation Accord.

**Robs89LXi** · 09-30-2005, 08:28 PM

Swap File, do you have experience with ECU programming?

**Swap_File** · 09-30-2005, 11:31 PM

I do not have experience in programming ECUs myself. I hope I didn’t mislead anyone into thinking I know what I am doing.

I just spent the last week reading the PGMFI wiki and forums, and started playing around with the available software. I plan on building one of those Willem EPROM programmers soon and seeing what I can get to work.

**Robs89LXi** · 10-01-2005, 10:02 AM

Yeah, but that might be hard to do with boost (positive pressure), unless you know of another vacuum source. Are you sure about that 5000rpm? You are probably right, but it sure seems like mine comes on earlier than that. Either way, if we can somehow invert the diaphram that controls the butterfly valve, then it would have the same function using positive pressure. The solenoid might also be able to be ECU controlled using software, so that rpm could also be controlled. Hmmm....

**Robs89LXi** · 10-01-2005, 10:41 PM

Wow, how did I miss that post? Lot's of good information there; thanks.
Three questions though:
1. Are our butterflies all-or-non, or do they open/close gradually?
2. Has anyone tried the complete electronic route, using solenoid/servo?
3. Know of any cars that use electronic controlled secondaries?

***A20A1*** · 10-01-2005, 10:49 PM

Depends on the:
Tightness of the spring VS How fast vacuum bleeds from the holding cannister.

**Robs89LXi** · 10-01-2005, 11:12 PM

Right, but what I mean is, are they designed to be either open or closed, with no in between, or are they designed to run partially open dependent on RPM? In other words, is there variable vacuum, or either vacuum/no vacuum on the diaphragm?

**bradSA138** · 10-02-2005, 12:21 AM

this is a TOTAL noob question, but yet it baffles me; I know there is an ancient conversion kit to convert the 1G CRX to OBD-1, but I would like to know if there is one available for the 3gee?

**SteveDX89** · 10-02-2005, 06:24 AM

Search.

**shepherd79** · 10-02-2005, 08:11 AM

No there are no kits available for our cars.
Everything will have to be made custom.
look at the research section of the board. we have entire thread about it.

**bobafett** · 10-02-2005, 09:07 AM

ill give you the short answer.

1. 92-93 accord f22a distributor with external coil (112 shipped, distributor king, on ebay)
2. jkobd obd0-obd1 conversion harness (around 100)
3. p75 (94-95 integra non vtec) ecu (135 chipped, www.xenocron.com)
4. tuning software (doesnt run perfect out of the box, FREEEEE)
5. socketed ecu if you plan to chip it and burn new eproms ( see above, or do it yourself )
6. probably have to add a few wires, or change a few pin locations to get the conversion harnes to actually work. (free)

annnnd of course you have to modify a bunch of shit to get the 4g dizzy on.

(freee, but im having a shop do it so its done right)

**Accordtheory** · 10-02-2005, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by bobafett

(freee, but im having a shop do it so its done right)

ha ha.. damn, that's funny shit, every time any shop has seen my car, they swarm around the engine bay like "...wtf..??"

**bobafett** · 10-02-2005, 12:46 PM

lol this is at a machine shop. not a damn rice shop. to them its just metal that needs to get fabbed. they dont care what car or engine bay it is! ;-)

**modu03** · 10-02-2005, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by bradSA138

this is a TOTAL noob question, but yet it baffles me; I know there is an ancient conversion kit to convert the 1G CRX to OBD-1, but I would like to know if there is one available for the 3gee?

um... our cars are obd-1. you need to go obd-2 ... it would not be worth the work in my opinion...

why do you want to do this anyway?